07 Email Questions and Answers

On Dec 28, 2007

Bob, I currently live in the woods in an old RV. I have had problems with mice and rats. How mouse/rat proof are your shelters? Would adding a floor make them more mouse resistant?

I can't believe your prices are so much lower than the other yurt/dome sights I have checked out. You have the most informative website I've seen. I am very interested in purchasing one of your products. Fonda AR

Hi Fonda

Nothing short of metal or glass seems rodent proof. Having a wooden floor will not help. I have found with mice and rats if you offer them NO food they generally go elsewhere. Keep All food in mouse proof containers; keep counters and floor very clean; locate trash and wast food away from your shelter in sealed metal trash cans; if you take your dome down, store it were mice or rats can not get to. They will still sometimes make nests were you do not want them. Trapping and relocation can help.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: November 19, 2007

Hello, I am in the concrete staining business as was wondering if you could design a rain shelter that we could use on jobs. It has to be able to cover driveways and sidewalks without touching the concrete and be strong enough to stand up when it rains without the concrete getting wet. It does not have to have much height to it just enough to stay of the concrete. Will only be up for one or two days, but has to be universal for different size jobs. If you can do is please respond. Thank You

John General Contractors, Inc.

Hi John

I think a version of our GroRow 10 http://www.shelter-systems.com/gro-row.html

and our CrystalCave 9 and or 11 http://www.shelter-systems.com/tunnle-shelters.html

Both of these are freestanding; meaning you can pick them up and set them over something and they will hold their shapes; we can make them longer for you and or you can join them end to end.

With the following modifications they may work for you: To get various widths you would need a different set of poles (a shorter pole set causes the base to spread) but since the poles is just standard thin wall PVC the cost would be minimal and you could make your own pole sets there.

After you get the email give me a call, if you want, so I can explain how to change the widths works.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Nov 22, 2007

thanks Bob...
this 31' by 16' might work as a housing for a theatre dome.....
which is 15' high.
I may have missed it in the site but can you confirm how it may be safely and securely anchored temporarily to a concrete base to be removed easily and re-located regularly.

With thanks
Adam

Adam,

Most temporary tent anchoring to concrete is done with water in containers sufficient to hold against the weather. Large plastic drums are often used.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Nov 13, 2007

Bob, I have used my 20 dome tent for 7 years and the panels are
delaminating and I have some holes as a result of a rat problem.

Can I buy individual panels? Or can I buy a complete new assembled shell
w/o poles?

Harley

Hi Harley

Panels are $65 per double panel or less 10% on the price of a dome for just the covering with the clips. I would go with the new cover. Seven years is a good life.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Oct 22, 2007

Hi Bob,

Do you have a system for rain water catchment...
If not... do you think that this system could be attached to the structure of your 20' Dome... with one flap of the over hanging shingled material feeding into it ?

Thanks, Robert

You would want to make the gutter to fit the dome. The flap of shingling material that circles the dome at about 5' can be tucked into a gutter that would direct rain run off into storage. The gutter could be of metal or fabric and should hang from the 12 clips that circle the dome just under the ring pole at the above mentioned 5'. In most towns there are individuals who are in the business of making custom gutters (look in the yellow pages). I would recommend a narrow gutter of say 2.5" to 3" as you will want to fit the gutter under the pole system of the dome. Each of the 12 gutter joints should be the same 150 degree angle. You will need a down spout and a storage tank for the water. Filtering and water purifying systems may be relevant. If your needs are small a 55 gallon plastic drum may suffice. For filtering do a search online for ( rain water filter system ) One we found was: http://www.baproducts.com/rainwatr.htm

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Oct 18, 2007

So, I have read the wind warning... and I am wondering if there is anyway to more securely tie down one of your domes... and if smaller is better in high wind areas...and is it a question of it coming apart or breaking or what...
I know that in expedition tents, which are subjected to high winds... the dome system seeks to work... is it the way they are made or a matter of size or what...
I wish to use your domes in the south pacific... and there are winds and storms...
So, what can you advise.

Thanks,

Robert

All tents including dome tents will fail if the wind is strong enough, no matter how they are tied down. Indeed all structures will fail if loaded enough.

It's a balancing act: how much mass do you want to put against the wind. Size is important: a larger dome catches more wind and must be much stronger to hold the wind. Our stronger domes are: 10', 18' and 30' and these will hold up well in most storms. If you should get a freak wind your dome may still fail; in most cases only some poles will brake (these and PVC and are easy and cheep to repair replace) and your dome can be put up after the wind has passed. You can also if you have warning of a storm coming your way remove the lower level of poles and then re-secure your dome to the ground. This will make for a more streamlined affront to the wind.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Dear Friends,
I am very intrigued with your shelters and the potential they offer for applications in the tropics.
A couple of silly questions.

a. Can the yurt be used with some type of shade cloth (either on the sides for raising poultry or on the top for raising tomatoes)?

You could replace some the sides with shade cloth. The problem with replacing all sides is that shade cloth tends to be strechy and this will reduce the stiffness of the dome and its ability to hold wind. The top of the dome is best "covered" with shade cloth not replaced. see: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html

b. What type of temperatures are generated in the regular yurt when it is in hot sun?

With doors open and an 80% shade cloth on the sides it approaches the out side temperature.

c. Could you use the regular yurt to grow plants? It suggests that a lot of the light goes through the normal covering?

Not plants that require full sun.

Here are several issues that need to be addressed in a tropical, low tech setting.
a. A moveable poultry facility that is large enough to make eonomic value but easy enough to move - prevent disease build up, spread manure, etc. It could be moved on a batch basis or a weekly basis in some situations.
b. A grow facility for vegetable crops that prevents pests from attacking the plants, protects from heavy rains and, while allowing sunlight, protects from undue heating and scorching.

You will likely have many more ideas and suggestions when answering this. Thank you so much for your help.

Peace,
Bryan

A BubbleDome made into a spaceship treehouse: http://www.openarchitecturenetwork.org/node/762

Wired Science Video that includes info Grip Clips. "Architecture for Humanity creates opportunities for architects around the world to make a difference through design initiatives, forums, workshops and competitions." : http://www.pbs.org/kcet/wiredscience/story/29-cameron_sinclair_architect.html

On Oct 9, 2007

Hi Bob,

We're in the UK thinking of buying two 31' Domes for event use.

Can two be joined together and one end left open, or can one 20' be joined onto a 31'? can four even be joined together? Can the joints be made secure so that they don't leak water?

What's shipping to the UK for two 31'ers?

Cheers,

Rich

Rich,

You can join domes door to door. You could also have one of the domes in an "open arch form". See instructions which I extracted from the manual http://www.shelter-systems.com/lighthouse-manual.html for the 18' dome, other size domes can be joined by the same. Domes of the same size can be truncated and joined also by the same means but are weaken since the pole arches are no longer continuous and the base tension ring is no longer a ring.

For shipping please contact: Orders & Customer Service 866-777-1066 eleanor@shelter-systems.com

Instructions for Attaching a Door to Door Connection Strip

Parts: Strip 3' by 16' for 18' dome or yurt, 8 Grip Clips, 8 clip cords. This strip when attached properly will join two dome doors tightly and create a gutter between them that redirects water to the base outside the domes.

On a windless day set up two domes next to each other such that two doors are facing each other. Roll up and tuck the two door coverings over the poles at the top of the doors. Move the domes together so that the base of the door openings touch each other. Follow carefully the instructions in you manual to secure your dome to the ground using all means necessary.

1) Knot end of each cord. Feed the un-knotted end of the cords through the concave side of each the "button" ends of the clips. Using the Clipping Instructions at the end of your manual attach two clips to the center end of the connection strip about 8"from the end, such that these clips are about 4" from each other.

2) Enter one of the domes and lay out your connection strip under the two door openings so that the button clip cords are to one side and centered in the door ways. The cords should be facing up and close to one of the sides of the openings.

3) Slip and tie tight one of the connector clip cords through the clip hole at the base and inside the doing closet to that clip. Repeat this with the other button clip cords inside the other dome. You will now have join these two domes together with the connecter strip.

4) Keeping the connector strip centered and tight apply two clips to the connector strip so that the button cord is on the same side of the strip as the first two clips and such that when these two clips are tied to the inside upper clips of the two, they pull the connector strip tight and centered. You may need to remove and reposition these two clips to get the connector strip tight, centered and even.

5) Next proceed to do the same for the next two door way clips. Keep the strip centered and tight.

6) Finely, secure the remaining two base clips. The connection strip should now be secured tight to the walls inside both domes creating an air closure and water tight connection.

7) You may carefully trim excess material from the strip.

8) If your soil does not drain well then make a ditch around your dome to direct water away from the domes.

9) If you need to make more connection strips you can remove the one you have fitted and use it as a pattern to make other strips.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 26, 2007

Hello bob,

I could not find anything about the fire resistance of the fabric. Mabey you can send me some info about that. Perhaps you could give me some useful tips, for i would like to order the biggest tent you have and test it for rental (mostly private party’s and some display) use. (repiar kits and spare parts) check out my site.

Best regards Emiel

Hi Emiel,

The fire resistance of our fabric meets all US criterion for tents. It think you would have a great reception to our 31' by your perspective renting customers. Every one loves it.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 30, 2007

Dear Bob,

What are the u.s. criterion for tents? We had some accidents here in Holland to do with fire, the government is since then very hysterical. Is there something to download for me to compare to Dutch standards. The other thing I wondered is, is the 31’ to build as a 30’? Can it also be build with one side open as you show in the pictures of the 30’? I am still in doubt, should I take the 31’or the 30’. Is the 31’ much more difficult to build compared to the 30’. And what is the extra advantage of 1 feet more? Could you also advise me about some spare-parts or repair kit to send along the first shipping. Or are these already included. My interest goes out to 2 tents.

Best Regards

Emiel

Emiel

Our tents meet or exceed the California fire marshals fire code for tents. You can goggle "california fire marshals fire code for tents" to get info on the laws which you may then compare with your Dutch standards.

The 31 can be set up in the "open arch form". You need to remove a few clips and poles and then roll and tie up the unsupported covering. Do note that in the open arch form the dome is not as strong (you have removed poles and the tensile covering) and is more prone to wind (the large opening can catch the wind).

The 31 takes about 20 more minutes than the 30 to put up (it has 40 extra poles to insert). The 31 is mostly different than the 30 in it's height and its more vertical lower side walls. The 30 is stronger in the wind since it is less high and presents less surface area to the wind.

Some spair parts are included with the tents but these are seldom needed. You can order more poles and Heavy Duty clips if you want: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 28, 2007 Wind and snow capabilities of the 30' x 11'

I'm looking at the 30' yurt dome shelter as a possible means to house some mute swans through the winter in southwest Ontario. We live in a flat region where winds can gust to 100K during a snow storm. We can also get up to a foot of snow overnight. Our backyard does have a bit of a blackade along the western side by a fence and some trees. On the southern side our house provides a good wind break. However, because of the very flat lands, the winds can swirl from all directions.

Are these conditions considered "extreme"?

I will need to make a decision on this fairly soon. Please email me at your earliest convience. Thank you!

Kaaryn

Do you mean 100 K per hour? By my reckoning that would be about 62 miles per hour? Thats a bit steep. How often would you get these winds? Could you set up a wind fence shield around the dome?

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 29, 2007 Wind and snow capabilities of the 30' x 11'

Yes, 100K per hour. This would be the top end of any gust that would come through here. This would not be a sustained wind. Sustained winds usually run between 30k to 60k/hr (according to the weather service) during our storms. But we do get small tornedos (F1) in our area every spring. The 100K gusts are very rare, but they have happened.

I asked about the 100k gust only because I needed to get an idea of what your site considered to be an "extreme" weather condition.

What about snow weights? We can get up to a foot overnight. Would the shelter be able to withstand that kind of snow for a short period until I could get out there and brush it off?

Thank you for such a prompt response!

Kaaryn

Our domes are not recommended for areas of sustained winds. The constant wind, through vibrations, slowly wears out components. Snow should be knocked or melted off with a heater inside as the snow is deposited. As you most likely know, some snow is light and others very heavy. A foot of heavy snow could collapse over night. It sounds like in your area you have "extreme" weather.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: September 24, 2007

Hi,

I purchased an 18' extra strong yurt dome in the spring of this year and during a big wind storm the fabric ripped at the bottom where it was anchored. I was wondering if this is under warranty and if there is a way to either repair or replace the panel. It looks like everything else survived just fine.

Let me know what I should do to keep this in good operating condition.

Dwight

Dwight,

This type of damage is not covered by the warranty, however there are several ways you can repair the damage. One, is to replace the panel: $65 (includes 4 HD GC) Two, is to add a clip to each side of the tare at the domes base and tie the two clips together. Three, is to remove the clip from the damaged base and bypass the tare by overlapping the good part of the panels and then clipping them together.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: September 27, 2007

Hi I was interested in purchasing a dome to cover my koi pond for the winter..I live in southern NYS where the winters are quite cold. we do however have some mild breaks in the winter and I was wondering if the temperature inside the dome could raise to the point of harming my koi.
thank you,
cindy

Hi Cindy

With a large volume of water this should not be a problem. I have not had any feed back from customers about overheating. If you are concerned, keep a watch of temperature and remove the cover if your pond over heats. You can also order one of our shade cloths shade your cover.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

E,
I have a question(s) on the dome I received. I ordered the 20’, “Extra Strong” one for Burning Man.

1. What size should the poles be (the diameter)? I saw some other shelter-system domes out there and the poles looked like a bigger size than mine.

2. Is there a way to keep it sealed better as when a wind blew a lot of dust came through the seams when it was flexed a little.

3. Is there any further advice on anchoring, pictures, etc. of the best way to anchor the dome?

Overall it worked pretty well. The big winds really stressed it and left some poles with a kind of permanent curvature. A couple of the nylon cords, where the joints are, wore through – is that a typical kind of wear-n-tear. I staked it well – 10 different stake setups like you told me – straps with bungee cords for flex.

Thanks,

Mark

Eleanor asked me to respond to your questions.

The 20' poles are called 1" but they measure about 1.25" in diameter. You may have seen some of our 30' domes out there which use poles that measure about 1.5"

This was one of the windiest years at Burning Man. You can, if you want, replace your bent poles but if they are not kinked they should still work. In big wind the dome will do a lot of flexing and this will over time cause the cords of your dome to wear. I would check all your cords and replace any that shows wear. You can order replacement poles and cords from us at a minimal cost.

From what you said it sounds like you had your dome staked out fine.

I suggest that you put up your dome and hose and scrub the dust off it. Let it dry completely.

Before going to the playa or Burning Man put the dome up on a dry and windless day on a tarp and trick the dome out for dust by:

1) Install a floor (you can make your own of a tarp or buy one we make) http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html see the online manual for instructions: http://www.shelter-systems.com/lighthouse-manual.html

Floor Covering: Always install a waterproof floor covering in your dome to keep the dampness of the earth from entering your living space and condensing on your walls. A blue tarp will work for this or Shelter Systems sells a circular, high grade waterproof floor, made from our woven film, to fit your dome with Grip Clips to attach it to your domes' wall. Spread the floor out evenly inside the dome. The edge of the floor should go up several inches against the inside walls. If you wish to tie in your floor, attach clips a few inches in from the edge of the floor. Thread string through one hole on the underside of each floor clip. Then thread it through one hole on the inside of a corresponding dome clip. This is easier if you use a tool like a crochet hook, paper clip or a needle nose pliers to grip and pull it through. Pull tight and tie.

Set up you dome and pull it out to be as close to a circle as you can on a day with low wind. Stake the dome out loosely and adjust if it is not forming a even circle. Spread your floor inside the dome so that some of the floor goes up evenly on each of the sides of the dome. If you have a fair amount of storage then spread it out around the edge of the floor next to the dome to hold the floor in shape and up against the sides of your dome. Often this is enough to hold your floor in place and you can get by with adding a clip to the floor on each side of the door you use to hold the floor tight against the foot traffic of entering and exiting. To attach the floor with all of the 12 Grip Clips that come with your floor attach cords to the smaller male parts of the clips by knotting one end of the cords and slipping the other ends of the cords through one of the holes in the male clips. Attach a Grip Clip to the floor about 2" from one of the domes ground clips such that the male part of the clip with it's attached cord faces the ground. Feed the end of the cord through the male part of the dome's ground clip, use a paper clip to loop around the cord and pull the cord out of the larger center hole of the clip; then pull it tight and tie a knot in it to hold the floor to the dome. Now go to the opposite side of the dome, pull the floor tight and attach and tie a clip to the dome. Next do the same for the two clips that are midway between the two that you have just done. Now finish up by proceeding in this same manner to attach and the remaining 8 clips. This should provide you with a tight, flat and even floor. Be sure to stake out your dome tightly after you are done.

Sticky back Velcro and be used to create a tighter seal of the floor to the wall. Make sure the floor and tent covering are clean and dry before applying the Velcro.The one way to attach the Velcro to your net doors is to first secure the floor to the walls of your tent as described above. Use a marking pen to mark where the edges of the floor contacts the sides of the tent. Move the floor to get it out of your way. Now measure and cut a length of "hook" Velcro long enough to secure one of the floor's edges. Remove the protective strip from the sticky back and apply this Velcro to the underside of the mark you have made on the side of the dome. Repeat for other sides of the floor. Take lengths of "loop" Velcro and Velcro them to the "hook" Velcro that you have already attached to the sides of your tent. Remove the protective strips from these. Now carefully lift and hook your floor to the sides of the dome. Press the floor to the exposed sticky of the Velcro. Rub well to secure the bonding of the glue to the floor and the sides of your Yurt Dome.

Rugs can be placed on top of your waterproof floor.

In strong wind we have found that tucking the domes skirt under the floor and then weighting down the floor particularly on the windward side so as to pinch the floor to the skirt and thereby to the ground helps to keep out the wind. Duct tape or sticky back velcro is valuable to further seal the floor's edge to the wall of the dome.

1) If you plan on being in an area that has blowing dust use Duct Tape to seal your floor to your wall.

2) Use sticky back Velcro to seal two of your opposite doors to the domes walls on both sides of the door and to the floor. Use Duct Tape or Velcro on the other two door to seal them closed.

3) Consider sealing the dome's shingling with sticky back Velcro or Duct Tape on the inside of the dome.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 20, 2007

Hello Bob,

I’ve found answers to most questions in your q&a but one (or more) remain...

I live in Southern Washington State. The sun comes down hard in the summer and the rain comes down hard in the winter. I’m looking for a permanent dome for year round multiple-use. Snow will definitely be a concern and I’ve found info on that. It looks like I’d have to replace the covering every 3-4 years, no problem. A friend raised a possible concern, based on his experience with PVC pipe he feels the PVC dome components would become brittle within a year or two of constant exposure resulting in brittle parts and breakage. What is your experience?

Shawn

Hi Shawn

Our domes have been used for shelter for extended periods of time; sometimes up to many years but they are light weight and most would consider them temporay. We have not had the PVC failing before the covering.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 20, 2007
Subject: Burning Man Shelter Wanted

Hello, I’m interested in a 20’ playa shelter with any accessories that you would recommend to make it as dust proof and heat resistant as possible. What would you recommend?

Sean

Hi Sean

I would suggest you get our 18' instead of the 20' it is a stiffer dome and will fair better if you get strong winds. You will not be able to keep all dust out of your space no matter what you do.

Before going to the playa or Burning Man put the dome up on a dry and windless day on a tarp and trick the dome out for dust by:

Rugs can be placed on top of your waterproof floor.

1) If you plan on being in an area that has blowing dust use Duct Tape to seal your floor to your wall.

2) Use sticky back Velcro to seal two of your opposite doors to the domes walls on both sides of the door and to the floor. Use Duct Tape or Velcro on the other two door to seal them closed.

3) Consider sealing the dome's shingling with sticky back Velcro or Duct Tape on the inside of the dome. This is best done before your dome is dusty.

4) Buy and use at least 1 or better 2 of our SunShades pulled tight over your dome and tied to the dome's clip cords. http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html

5) Buy and attach one of our SunShades to your dome and pull it out and tie it to your car's roof rack. This will make a shaded porch area that you can cook, eat and sit under away from the sun.

Bob Gillis

On Sep 8, 2007:

Hello, I was at Burningman this year and I am looking for a new tent/shelter etc. My 6 person tent was a great size but did not keep the tremendous dust storms out that occurred almost daily form noon to 2pm and accompanied by high winds. What would you recommend for such a location?

Sincerely,
Peter

Hi Peter

Nothing short of being sealed in will keep you free from the dust at Burning Man. Our domes have performed well in the wind at Burning Man during the past 10 years. They will help control the dust but they will not give you a dust free environment. We recommend sticky back velcro or duct tape be used to help seal problem areas. Be sure to clean seams before applying velcro. Alcohol is good to clean areas were you want to stick Velcro.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Sep 8, 2007

I notice the following two contradictions in your catalog: "The 18 and 30 foot Yurt Domes are the most difficult to put up. Make sure you have two strong people working on it. "

"Our 14', 18' and 20' Yurts can be set up by one person in 30 minutes without tools."

These two lines are from your web site. I read the one about one person setting up an 18 footer and bought one. I now know that indeed two strong and stubborn people are needed. Does the pipe get easier to bend after a few set ups? I had hoped to use the tent by myself but that seems a foolish thing to think--unless the pipe becomes more flexible over time.

"Note: it does not matter which connector is on top and which is underneath; random is best." Does this apply to all connectors? I paid little attention until the tent was up and some connections are indeed randomly top or bottom. Some odd bows (pushed out 6 inches further than other bows) seem to tell me I should have tried better to not be random.

Hi Gary

The 30' is almost always a two strong persons job however with practice one person with strength can put it up. The 18' is considerably easier the second time around as the poles take a set, the covering stretches out a bit., and you develop the moves that are needed to put it up. If you find to difficult to put up your self, consider reliving some of the tension with a hacksaw by shortening the long poles a 1/4" each. Do not remove more than 1/4".

As you noticed: if the "randomness" of the connectors are "just so" some poles can be deformed. This sometimes is the case were the poles form a ring around the girth of the dome. Here, if the position the connectors that form this ring are on the "outside" there is less tension on the ring and it is less likely for the poles to deform. Removing 1/4" from your long poles should solve this also.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Aug 25, 2007

Hello Bob,
I am wondering if you have anyone living in a dome in FL, and how that has worked out.

How well ventilated are the domes? Can they be air-conditioned? I'd like something that could have the door flaps secured back and screen attached in its place to approximate a large screen room. Are the domes mildew and mold-proof? That can be a big issue here.

Thanks
Lyn

Hi Lyn

Our dome have 4 doors. You can order 4 net door for them: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html We would also recommend you get one of our large Sun Screens. Even with four net doors it is not a large screen room.

They can be air conditioned. They will not mildew or mold but dirt on them can. We have sold domes to customers in FL. As far as I know the domes have worked well for them.

Bob Gillis

On Aug 21, 2007

What approximate weight can we hang from the connectors inside?

..............

Approximately 8 lb. for the 18' and 20' and 15 lb. for the 30' can hang inside your dome clips.

Bob Gillis

On Aug 18, 2007

Dear Bob,
I have a few questions concerning your 20' and 30' yurt domes. I am currently in the process of buying a pecan farm in GA. I am planning to live about as minimalist as possible and have been throwing around a lot of idea's as to how I could attain this. I stumbled across your website recently and have been seriously considering your yurt domes as a shelter. I plan to put the dome under the canopy of pecan trees which is very shady and grassy. I figure it will provide ample shade from the hot summer sun. I was also planning to get the bug nets and inner lining for insulation. I saw a photograph on the testimonials page of someone who made a stone floor to use with the tent and I think that is probably what I am going to do.
But my questions are how you think it will stand up to the hot and humid GA summers and the cold dry winter that is coming soon.

Should be fine but read our snow and wind warnings. Take care that no large branches can fall on you.

Also do you have any advice for good power

Go Solar http://www.gaiam.com/retail/SolarLiving?CMP=KNC-booyah&atlas=true&gcid=S18376x001&keyword=real%20goods

You can get by fine with 4 to 6 panels (must have sun) and 2 to 4 gulf cart batteries. Use 12 volt lighting, small 12 volt refractor, etc.

, heating, cooling solutions for off grid minimalist living.

Heat with wood cook with propane. Cool with fans and drink ice water.

Do you know of anything else you guys provide that might help. Oh and my final question, how do you think the tents holds up to keeping bugs and critters out, when I am in my home I want it to be free of any worries from living in the wild if possible. I was thinking about velcro'n or taping the inner lining to the floor somehow to keep bugs out, any better ideas?

That sounds good. Keep food in ant proof containers.

Thanks for your time,
Chris Miller

Read our Q&A section: http://www.shelter-systems.com/qanda.html

Plumbing

Plumbing deals with two matters: water and sewage. Water is used for drinking, washing dishes and clothes, and bathing.

Disclaimer: the following information and ideas are provided in an attempt to be helpful to users of our domes, but we do not intend nor imply that you must or should implement any of these ideas. In addition, depending on where your dome is located, some of these ideas may be prohibited by local ordinances.

GETTING THE WATER:
1) Carry water in jugs to your dome.

2) Connect a hose to a neighbor's water line for pay. The water pipe carrying the water from your neighbor's must be made of a material which won't contaminate drinking water. Check with a plumbing or hardware store. Also, if there will be constant water pressure in the hose, check which fittings can handle the pressure. Storage containers come in various capacities. The large ones are available at plumbing supplies stores.

3) Collect rain water:
In a tarp--using Grip Clips tarp fasteners to suspend 4 corners of the tarp--one corner a bit lower and over a barrel.
Off the dome--by attaching and hanging a gutter, made from a long, 10"-wide strip or strips of plastic tarp, to the bottom of the overlapping 6" skirt that hangs down and ends right below the horizontal pole. (Look at the first photo of the SolarDome page to understand more clearly where this is.) Fold the strip of tarp so it's still the same length but only half as wide. Hold the 2 open edges of the gutter on either side of the bottom of the skirt and fasten the 3 layers (gutter-skirt-gutter) together with safety pins, placing pins about every 2'. (Safety pin holes in the skirt of an overlapping panel will not affect the watertightness of the dome.) Let one end of the gutter hang down and drain into a barrel.

You may want to filter the water for leaves, dirt, and insect particles, using a sand filter or straining it through a clean cloth. Depending upon the water's purity, you may need to purify water to be used for drinking and washing dishes: 1) Boil it for 5 minutes. 2) Use chlorine tablets. 3) Use 2% USP iodine solution: 2 drops per quart if clear and 10 drops per quart if cloudy. Wait 30 minutes. 4) Use "household chlorine bleach (5.25% sodium hypochlorite solution). Do NOT use solutions in which there are active ingredients other than hypochlorite. Use the following proportions: Clear Water: 2 drops for one quart; 8 drops for one gallon ; 1/2 teaspoon for 5 gallons. Cloudy Water: 4 drops for one quart; 16 drops for one gallon; 1 teaspoon for 5 gallons. Mix water and hypochlorite thoroughly by stirring or shaking in a container. Let stand for 30 minutes. A slight chlorine odor should be detectable. If not, repeat the dosage and let stand for an additional 15 minutes." (1999 Pacific Bell Directory. For Palo Alto, Redwood City & Menlo Park. page B6). Contact a city or county agency to find out where to have your water tested.

4) Collect water from streams, creeks, ponds, lakes or springs. If a spring is uphill from the dome, pipe it directly to your dome or collect it in containers. Depending upon the water's purity, you may need to purify water to be used for drinking and washing dishes.

5) Collect snow and melt it slowly indoors or over a fire. To protect your pot, put some water in the pot before you put the snow-filled pot over the fire. Depending upon your water's purity, you may need to purify water to be used for drinking and washing dishes.

6) Drill a well.
Note: I have used all these methods, except for drilling a well.

USING THE WATER:
Heating water:
1) Heat it on a stove in a pot.
2) Heat it in a solar water heater (such as hanging 3-gallon bag). Check solar energy companies' websites.
3) Use a wood-fueled water heater, marketed online through solar energy companies.
4) Use a propane-fueled water heater.
5) Use a water heater which attaches to a wood-burning stove, marketed online through solar energy companies.

Washing dishes:
1) Use a pot or bowl and then toss the used wash water. Soapy water doesn't hurt plants or animals. However, it will harm life in streams; soap is a nutrient for algae which will "bloom" and can eventually crowd out and kill fish.
2) Buy a sink with a drain, from a building supply or hardware store. Build a wooden box to hold the sink at desired height and after washing, direct the used water where you want it with a hose, flexible black plumbing pipe, or PVC.

Rigging up a shower:
You'll need some water pressure. You can achieve this by either using a hanging solar bag or positioning a water storage tank uphill from shower, with a water heater in-between. Build an enclosure for privacy. You can let the water drain away.

Washing clothes:
1) Use a large container or a sink, as for dishwashing. Buy a wash board at a hardware store. Dry clothes on a clothes line or inside dome in wet weather.
2) Use a neighbor's wash facilities for pay.
3) Go to a laundromat.
4) Buy a stainless steel, hand-powered washing machine. Wringer attachments are available.
5) Buy an efficient electric washing machine which can be powered with solar energy, marketed online through solar energy companies.

Outhouse function:
1) Use a neighbor's facilities for pay.
2) Dig a one-use-only pit privy. Dig a 6"-deep hole with a shovel, use it, and then fill it with dirt. Each time. For rural use only.
3) Dig a hole, which is 3' in diameter and 3-5' deep, and cover it with a piece of plywood with 12"-diameter hole cut in it. Make a cover for the hole. Keep toilet paper stored nearby under a can. For privacy, build a fence or enclosure, with or without a roof. After using it, put a shovelful of dirt or lime in to minimize odor. When full, cover with about 1' of dirt.
4) Buy a chemical toilet (used in airplanes, RVs and houseboats), which allows you to have an inside toilet. When the container is full, you have to take the container somewhere to be emptied. Purchase from RV supply or boating stores.

FREEZING CONDITIONS:
Be sure to take the necessary precautions to prevent the freezing and/or bursting of your plumbing. These could be insulting your plumbing, heating it, or burying it below the permafrost.

You may want to purchase a SolarDome 8' to cover your outhouse.

On Aug 16, 2007

Alternative Poles??

Hello Bob,

I recently read on your Q&A page that alternative poles can be used instead of the pvc poles. I have been checking into aluminum poles and was wondering if they are appropriate for the yurt/dome cover? If so, which length and size should be purchased. If not, what alternative poles would you recommend, please include the length and size.

My dilema is I will be traveling to the East coast for six months a year (Nov. thru April) and returning to the South for the months of May thru October. In the East the winters tend to be a bit more chilly then the South, so I have been thinking on using more stable poles for the winter there because the pvc poles may break due to the colder temps and changing back to the pvc poles when I return to the South.
I would really appreciate your expertise in this matter. Any information you give will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Glenda

I would just go with PVC. Get some extra poles if you are worried about breakage. Use the sleeping bag method of pole warming:

Note when putting up your dome in the cold: The poles of the dome are made of PVC, a thermo plastic, which gets stiffer with the cold. In putting up the dome the poles are bent and inserted into connectors. It is preferable that the domes be set up during the day when the air temperature is warmer. Poles may be kept warm by wrapping them in a blanket with several large bottles of boiling hot water. Once the poles are warm remove and insert them one at a time from the blanket. If the domes are set up in the extreme cold with out warming the poles some may break. This should not be a problem however since we include 4 extra poles with each dome.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Aug 17, 2007,

hey bob,

playa dome advice

i live in san francisco, and just bought a 14' Playa Dome from someone on
craigslist. i will of course be taking it to Burning Man. im hoping you can
help me with the care and feeding of this dome!

.....Try to put up your dome at home before going to the playa.

basically i have the 14' dome with no sunShade or ground tarp or net doors,
and am looking to be as comfortable as possible in an incredibly hot, dusty
and windy environment. if i will be significatly more comfortable by adding
a few bells and whistles with minimum extra expense, please give me a quick
game plan.

some specific questions:

1) is there a manual specific to this dome

or do i just go by the online
general purpose manual?

Yes

2) can you send me a packing list for the 14' playa dome so i can confirm i
have all the parts? how many long tubes and how many short tubes should
there be?

40 long 12 short

3) your site suggests that the black sunshade is more effective than the
silver. how can this be, when the black is absorbing all that heat and must
be radiating much of it back into the dome?

The shade is porous and the heat is carried away and up. Be sure to get and use a sunshade. The Black is 80% shade and the silver is only 70%

4) the dome apparently has no ground cover. without a ground cover, will
playa dust enter from underneath?

Most customers use a tarp and an old rug.

5) i assume cheapest ground cover option is a blue tarp and ill need a 16' x
16' one? will this prevent the dust from entering from underneath or do i
need velcro?

You can use duct tape or put your tarp floor on top of your domes skirt and weigh it down with your stuff

thanks in advance for your time. you seem to have a cool product and im
really amped about using it at my first burning man...

------------------------------------------------------------------------
dan

On Aug 18, 2007

thanks for the great help, bob.

so i dont need to buy extra glip clips from you? even if i want to hang a
few things inside the dome?

40 long 12 short; Dome, manual, spare parts, 16 stakes

it looks like i only have 38 long and 6 short. guess it's off to dome depot
for me. is there anything i need to know about cutting replacement tubes?

also are there supposed to be extra grip clips among the spare parts? what
about vent tubes?

Dan

If you work with tarps (even your tarp floor 12 GP GC are handy to tie in your floor) you will love the GCs.

You can hang from the existing clips on the inside of your dome but if you want to hang sheets get some LF GC or traps GP GC.

As to the poles, try to get class 200 or 125 from an irrigation supply store such as Ewing Irrigation. Bring a hack saw to cut it to length there so you can fit them in your car.

There are "binder clips (smallest)" to help hold your doors tight in mild wind. The Vent Tubes are 6" sections of 2" PVC.

Sticky back velcro is useful for your doors. Clean with rubbing alcohol first.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Aug 10, 2007

Hi Bob -

Is there any reason to buy the general-purpose clip over the Grip Clip Pro? Or the heavy-duty clip over the Pro? I get the sense that the Pro is the way to go now, and it costs the same as those other two, but maybe you can clarify for me.

FYI I'm a proud owner of an 18' dome I bought from y'all back in 2003; it's been to the playa four times now, and is going on a fifth. At least one person bought the same dome a couple years later after seeing mine. Love that thing!

Regards,

Larry
San Francisco, CA

Hi Larry

Yes, the GPGC and the HDGC are better than the GCP when you want to grab onto a tarp and pull or join two free hanging tarps together. The standard GC can be used to tie a tarp to a frame. The Pro is best when you want to directly attach a tarp to a frame of wood, metal etc. The "button" part of the Pro can be screwed directly to say a wooden roof or a steel pole structure and then you can "lock" on a tarp with the "ring" part of the Pro. The pro can be used to join tarps

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: August 7, 2007

Do you have any options for ‘rolling structures’? We are an automotive inspection business that inspects several hundred cars per day?

Julie

Our domes and structures are freestanding (do not need to be anchored to the ground to hold their shape) and have multiple near vertical poles around their base. It would be possible to attach caster wheels to these poles which would allow you to freely roll the structures about. The structures do need to be secured against the wind.

Bob Gillis

On Aug 3, 2007

Hi, I have been interested in your Yurt Domes for some
time now. I've noticed that many of your customers
have mentioned using them in high wind areas. But I
was wondering if you had had anyone actually test it's
wind resistance officially yet. What would you
consider "unusually strong wind"? I would want to use
my dome in Dumont Dunes California as a base
station/sleeping quarters when out riding quads. I
don't have an RV so I thought a Yurt Dome might be a
cool alternative. I understand it can get pretty windy
out there, speeds up to 40-60mph, which is extreme but
not unheard of.

Would it be difficult to design a tent over a flat bed
trailer? Sort of uber-wind resistant covered wagon
styles?

What are your thoughts? Thanks, Mike Mendoza

Hi Mike

Winds that are said to be 30 mph can have gusts exceeding 50 so it is very hard to rate winds or how a structure will do in them. Our domes do well in all but extreme wind conditions. That being said they can be blown down in very strong wind or winds that go on for a long time. I believe the tents we offer are the strongest available for their large size and the materials they are made of, but they are light in weight; you cannot climb upon them. If you are concerned about your winds you might want to choose a more rigid structure or at least choose one of our stronger domes 10, 18, or 30'. Be sure you anchor them well to the ground and if you know of a big wind coming take them down till the storm passes.

See also:

http://www.shelter-systems.com/lighthouse-manual.html

http://www.shelter-systems.com/burning-man-wind.html

http://www.shelter-systems.com/warning.html

We do not have a wind strong tunnel structure but you might consider rigging one up using steel tubing and Grip Clips:

http://www.shelter-systems.com/gripclips/index.html

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Hi,
We bought a 30’ geodome from you this year to use at Burning Man for our daughter’s wedding. It will be our camp “living room”, where our daughter teaches yoga, and where the wedding will take place. She and her fiancé have set it up and love it. Their only concern is how we will cool it. My understanding is that there is some airflow by removing some of the lower panels. We were wondering if you have some recommendations regarding solar fans, etc. Should we also purchase a shade cover? Do you have one that will fit the dome we purchased?
Thanks for your assistance. We are looking forward to Burning Man.

Robin

Sunshades are the key; they make a Huge difference. Get one of our large ones or better still two: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Jul 27, 2007

On Jul 25, 2007

Ok, i set up the dome (happened to have 4 people, so it went up pretty quickly). did take quite a bit of effort to bend the poles, not sure i have the technique to do that alone!). and believe we set it up correctly. once it was up i moved the feet around, seemed as even as i could get it. Inside was nice, and i got several compliments. It goes down quickly (which is great too).

A few pole needed bending more than others (see photos, especially one of the top, "imgs1879_img2.JPG"). you can see one top pole bending quite a bit, that pole went in early, and just like that. I've seen this model a lot, there was another one same size at the event, so i know the dome doesn't feature perfect 'straight' arch lines.
However my dome seems to be the worst i've ever seen, it looks really wobbly, more than any other.

Given than one pole took significant bending. i'm wondering if there too much variation in where the grip-clips are placed in my dome, or i have not in fact set that up correctly.

Please take a look at the photos and let me know!

Also, we had extra one short pole but no extra long poles. i thought it came with 3 extra long?

Finally, i didn't set up the shade tarp, but i'm a little confused how that attaches. I think a diagram/photo might help, showing one of the SunShade corner's GripClip attached to the dome. (I think you attach/anchor one corner/point, while you walk around/hoist/pull it over the dome with the other corner).

Please advise, and feel free to write or call to clarify, any questions. Thanks.

Best,
T.

Hi Tzara

You are right. For some reason your poles are each 1/4" too long. Your poles should all form smooth arches over your dome. You can return them (we can issue you a no charge send back from DHL) and we can shorten them for you and send them back. Or you can with a hacksaw; mark carefully and cut off 1/4" off of each of your long poles. I am sorry for this inconvenience. It happens once in a blue moon. Once of the right length the poles will self adjust to make smooth arches.

Most people only have one door pole added which should leave you with 3 extra. If for some reason you were shorted let us know and we will make up the difference.

You are right about the shade cloth: you tie one corner and then walk the opposite corner around the dome and tie it. It comes with special "snap" clips. Then tie the other two.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: July 13, 2007

can you roll-up or not attach lower portions of the dome(s) to allow light and airflow? Also, how much time should we allow for delivery? ....would like to take to BM this year.

thanks,
Tom

Hi Tom

Yes you can roll up portions of your dome to increase air flow. The dome lets in 40% of the light with out being opened at all. Know that the more of the dome's covering you roll up the less strong the dome is in the wind.

Contact Orders & Customer Service 866-777-1066 eleanor@shelter-systems.com to find out about delivery time.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Jul 17, 2007

Hello Bob,
I am interested in your bicycle shelter-systems bike shed but I have one question. What can be done to protect bikes from moisture from the ground since there is no floor?
Christine

Hi Christine

You can lay down a tarp inside your BikeShed to keep the ground dampness out. Just make sure that you tuck the tarp to the inside of your BikeShed to keep water from runing down the outside of the shed and then hitting the tarp and folloing it to the inside. You could also lay down a sheet of plywood cut so it did not extend beyond the shed.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Date: July 5, 2007

Thank you, May I have the weight and composition, tear strength?
Is this covering Thanks again, Mick

The weight is approximately 4 oz per square yard. It is a proprietary copolymer. You can not tear it with your hands even after it is cut with a knife.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Dear Mick,

Thank you for your inquiry.

Our woven ripstop films are sold by the yard and are 6 feet wide.
They are $10 per yard - shipping is additional.

Sincerely, Eleanor

On Jul 6, 2007

I have an inground pool with snorkel stove, about 10’ long and 3’ wide. I need a shelter to cover it in winter, insulating, and allowing a stove pipe through the material. Do you make stove pipe connectors through the material?

It is relatively easy to pass your stove pipe through one of our dome's walls. We suggest customers shingle in s section of plywood and then using insulated pipe and regular stove pipe fittings run you pipe through middle this section.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Jun 30, 2007

Hello Bob:

I was wondering if anyone has used 30' shelter systems domes as rentals? Weddings, tradeshows, etc...

It is something I am considering. Take a large dome into a town and produce multi-media shows, music, etc...then when I am not using it, offering it as an event rental.

We have one of your small domes as our pump house...

We are located near Gainesville, Florida. Your thoughts?

Thanks.
--
Robert

Robert,

I think it is a great idea. We have been approached by people to rent the domes so it would seem your plan would work.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Jun 27, 2007

Eleanor Gillis wrote:Dear Tzara,

I contacted our designer and owner and he advised me that we do not sell the net walls any longer. I am sorry for any disappointment. Maybe you could contact our designer and talk to him about making your own?

Net Walls (Optional): The net wall must be installed by Shelter Systems. If you ordered a net wall, you will have been given three extra long poles for it. Locate the wall panels where there is netting on the inside of your yurt. There are three clips on the wall panels of the yurt where you will need to untie a string that is holding the panels down. At three points on the two wall panels where the poles hold the awning up, you will find clips with plugs that slip inside the ends of the poles. Stand your awning up with the poles and guy them out with the guy lines provided. Tie a guy line to each clip string at one end, and to a stake at the other. Guy out the middle pole first, tying the guy line to both clip strings (since two clips come together at this point). Now have a seat and enjoy the breeze!

Bob Gillis wrote:Hi Tzara

The net wall weakens the structure in strong wind. Each bit of covering you remove weakens the dome more. With 4 doors standard I felt it was too much to remove more. If you do not have wind you could make a net wall yourself on by taking measurements and sewing one of netting. Velcro could be used to attach it to your dome.

I am curious were you found the net wall instructions. Thought I took them off the site.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

You mean by making say an open arch then attaching screen to the side, by velcro?

----Yes.

I had seen and liked the net wall concept when i was considering a dome last year or so. but i could not find the info on the current site (yes removed), i used an internet archive to dig up the info, so at least i know i wasn't making stuff up!!

i wouldn't use the screen/window/net wall at burningman for sure then, but in Oregon the wind is mild, and the screen would be a nice addition, opening up the dome but keeping mosquitoes out, maybe a nice view without outright opening up the whole side.

i'm also curious, if it the net wall weakens the dome, you would say the same about making the open arch version? just curious.

----It does weaken the dome; yes.

maybe a better solution is something like a screen window. keep all the poles/tension in place, the screen completes that section's paneling, the white outer shingle has a rectangular cuts (three sides), flaps down/closed when you want closed, roll up when you want to see out, overlaps to keep rain out.

----This should work to the degree that the screen successfully replaces the tension web of the covering removed. Most screen is not tight on the diagonal.

Best,
Tzara

On Jun 7, 2007

Playa bound...

Hey Bob—

After 10 years of fooling around with shade structures on the playa…our group is seriously looking at your products…and a couple things keep coming up that I’m sure are on your website but just wanted to check—

---Storage for the other 51 weeks a year…Is this the whole set-up for a 30 foot dome?

How do we clean the playa dust off the cover before we store it (for 51 weeks a year…)

Thanks for your time
Markie-east

Hi Mark

That is the whole 30' dome. Note that the fellow is 6' tall.

One way to clean it is to set it up on a lawn and hose it down inside and out. You can also use a brush or mop with soap. Rinse and dry completely before storage. The dome must be completely dry before storage; the dome it self will not mildew, but small specks of dust and dirt on the dome etc can mildew and stink up your dome.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On May 18, 2007,

Hi Eleanor,

I received the dome and I am not completely satisfied yet, I am having trouble with the floor it does not fit no matter which way I turn it there is a side that will not have anything to attach to the side of the dome. Round is cool but odd shape does not work that well with round. Do you have any suggestions on what I can do to make this work?

Thank you,

Riana

Hi Riana

Sorry you are struggling with your floor. Try this: set up you dome and pull it out to be as close to a circle as you can on a day with low wind. Stake the dome out loosely and adjust if it is not forming a even circle. Spread your floor inside the dome so that some of the floor goes up evenly on each of the sides of the dome. If you have a fair amount of storage then spread it out around the edge of the floor next to the dome to hold the floor in shape and up against the sides of your dome. Often this is enough to hold your floor in place and you can get by with adding a clip to the floor on each side of the door you use to hold the floor tight against the foot traffic of entering and exiting. To attach the floor with all of the 12 Grip Clips that come with your floor attach cords to the smaller male parts of the clips by knotting one end of the cords and slipping the other ends of the cords through one of the holes in the male clips. Attach a Grip Clip to the floor about 2" from one of the domes ground clips such that the male part of the clip with it's attached cord faces the ground. Feed the end of the cord through the male part of the dome's ground clip, use a paper clip to loop around the cord and pull the cord out of the larger center hole of the clip; then pull it tight and tie a knot in it to hold the floor to the dome. Now go to the opposite side of the dome, pull the floor tight and attach and tie a clip to the dome. Next do the same for the two clips that are midway between the two that you have just done. Now finish up by proceeding in this same manner to attach and the remaining 8 clips. This should provide you with a tight, flat and even floor. Be sure to stake out your dome tightly after you are done.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

May 17, 2007

hi Bob,

Can you convert the 31' in to a 30'??

Am I right in uderstanting that the 31 foot dome has just one "extra skirt" of "clipped/shingled on" pannels at the bottom ?
It would be perfect for me If it would be possible to convert the dome between the two sizes as I cant make up my mind about size ( I will need it for various purpuses some times BIGGER some times smaller )

Should it not be possible to unclip the bottom row of panels ==> could they be rolled up and the lowest level of poles be taken out ??

Hope you understand my querie.

Looking forward to hearing from you

regards Kilian

PS I am very chuffed to have found your fantastic tent constructions and am looking forward to owning one

Kilian

Yes, you can convert a 30 to 31 by adding on the lower side walls. You can also remove the poles from the lower wall of a 31 and roll up the wall to create a 30'.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

April 24, 2007

Eleanor,

After 6 playa years our dome needs help.
Obviously I need at least 1 repair kit, but want to get everything I
need without a lot of thrash.

....As to the repair kit: the main ingredient is the 100% silicone rubber glue which you can get at Home Depo if you want. We will send you some scrap for free with any other order you make; just let us know.

Some questions:
I am considering replacing all the poles. Is this just standard
PVC I can buy at home depot?

....Yes, if you can find class 125 or 200 (thin wall). Compair it with one of your poles. Look for it also at companies such as Ewing that sell irrigation supplies.

Playa has ruined the zip cord used in the dome. Can I just use
parachute cord?

....You can if it compares with what we use on the dome. It should be 100% nylon.

What is the difference between your "18' Extra Strong Dome" and my
regular 18' dome?

....The difference is the windows. The ES has a stronger window material.

Thanks,

Stomper

On Apr 16, 2007

Hi Bob,

I am considering purchasing the 18' Geodesic Yurt, but I have a few questions about ordering options. Would you sell a shelter without the PVC poles if I wanted to make my own? If so, how much would this change the price? Has anyone ever used small saplings in place of the PVC poles? They bend quite well and I have lots of very young ash and maple I would be taking down to make room for the yurt anyway.

Thanks,

Willis

Hi Willis

We do offer the Yurt for sale without poles for 10% less that is less $72. As you can see the poles are not a large part of the cost of the dome. Alternative poles have been used. If you use poles less than the 1.25" poles that are standard you would need to make smaller "connectors" for the poles. You also need to choose your poles to have a stiffness about the same as class 200 1" PVC.

Bob Gillis

Date: April 5, 2007

I bought a 20ft dome back in jan or feb, and recently put it up. I have a few things I am not happy with about it.
1. I dont see how the shingled panels would keep out rain in a wind/rain/thunderstorm.
2. If you really insist that I should use a plastic floor, why isnt it included?
3. A couple of the stakes ripped out. I now need about 3 new panels (the lower ones near the doors) with the grip-clips and door holders, and one of the strips across the doorway, or enough material to make them.
I would appreciate it if you could replace these parts.

Thank you,
Andrew

....

Hi Andrew

I am sorry to hear that you have had some problems with your dome.

We do not recommend the domes for very strong winds that you may sometimes get in a thunderstorm. The shingling in the dome holds well for most winds but if you get strong winds from a consistent direction you can get some rain penetration. Sticky back velcro can be applied between the shingling if you find this is a problem.

The domes can and have been used without a water tight floor but if the ground is damp and you keep it closed up you may find that condensation is a problem. The reason we do not include a floor is to give customers a choice. Some customers prefer to place their dome on a deck and do not want a floor; others would rather save money and buy a blue tarp and cut it to fit; still others choose to buy one of the floors we make.

I assume what you mean is that the covering of your dome was ripped away from the ground clips when your dome go hit with a very strong wind. Single panels are $30 each and include 4 Heavy Duty Grip Clips with them. Double panels are $60 and include 6 HD GCs. There is no charge for the door strip but do let us know you need one. Shipping on three single panels is $20. See details near the end of our online manual for instructions to install the panels: http://www.shelter-systems.com/lighthouse-manual.html . We also sell the materials to make your own: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html Be sure to tell us if you need the Greenhouse covering or the Shelter Covering.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Apr 6, 2007

Bob,

Can we pick up an order?

We are group buying shelters as part of an Emergency Preparedness program for temporary shelters to be put up in the Northeast Adirondak Mountion area.

We have 2, 30 foot yurts from Pacific Yurt Company and love them. However, these take quite a bit to put up and then to take down. They are working year round for us and we also need to keep the snow accumulation down. We take a long rope and segment a rubber "comb made from old conveyer belting and comb over the whole structure very quickly and this really takes care of the snow. We had one interesting experience when ice froze on this structure. Many trees were destroyed. We heated very high temperatures inside and this loosened the ice underneath and we could then break it loose with rubber segmented comb and the ice came sliding off in chunks.

We are so interested in what we have seen on your site. These look to be much more user friendly and easier to put up and take down.

Our group wants to know how many poles come in each kit and what the weight is? In addition, how much space does a complete outfit collapsed down to store take up and how much is the weight? They wish there was a downloadable dvd clip showing putting one up?

We have one person, la engineer, who says the materials for the dome covering may not be adequate for our high humidity area. could you be more specific for this person about the dome covering material or can we buy a sample so she can run some tests to see how it can measure up to our unique unpredictable weather?

In addition, what is the UV % allowed through opn the green house covers?

These are truely incredible structures and we are serious about purchasing.

Thank you

Russ

....

Hi Russ

We are only set up to ship.

The pricing our our 30' dome is $1900. They will not hold much snow. The 30' has 68 poles and dome with poles weighs 190 lbs. Here is a photo of the dome folded up:

Also see: http://www.shelter-systems.com/sizes.html

See http://www.shelter-systems.com/large.html

to see an 18 ' being put up see: http://www.shelter-systems.com/upin30min.html

The covering will not and can not rot from dampness. It is completely synthetic.

Shelter Systems' Special Super Strong Woven Ripstop Films
Shelter Systems' coverings are made by taking a special plastic copolymer (a simple compound composed of carbon and hydrogen which is chemically similar to wax) and stretching it until it becomes stiff. At this point, the material is at its maximum tensile (pull) strength. It is then sliced into thin strips and woven into a fabric. This gives it amazing tear resistance. The fabric is then laminated on both sides with some sheets of the same stretch-strengthened material and is thereby stabilized and super strengthened. You cannot tear it.

Shelter Systems' Translucent: Lets 90% of sunlight through (more than glass). UV transmission is over 75%. Designed for greenhouse and solar use. Greenhouse fabric: uvB=59% transmission; uvA=68% transmission; visible light transmission=84%

All Shelter Systems' coverings incorporate UV sunscreen inhibitors to help block damage from the sun and give the covering a longer useful life.

Shelter Systems' White: Lets 60% of light through; not enough for greenhouse use.
white fabric: uvB=0% transmission; uvA=0% transmission; visible light tansmission 25%

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Apr 5, 2007

I stumbled across your site a couple nights ago and think your domes are
pretty amazing. I have a couple questions:

1) On your 30 and 31 foot tents:

We are thinking about trying this dome as a "kiosk" at a flea market,
however where we are we get some pretty strong winds in the spring
months. It is not uncommon to have days of 30 mph sustained winds with
gusts up to 60 mph. The winds usually start in the morning and end after
dusk, so putting the dome up and taking it down would not be a problem.
The question is: when the winds come up, will the dome survive...
(presuming that it is properly staked, etc...)? We can pour concrete
footings with steel eyes for tying the dome to the ground, and for guy
wires. The dome will only be standing one 8 hour day per week. We have
also been thinking about a way to create a triangular wind-dam on the
wind-ward side... but we figured you'd know best.

If this won't work with the larger tents, how about the 20 footer?

2) Reselling, drop-shipping, or affiliate marketing:

The reason we are looking at your domes in the first place, is that we
are developing a "business in a box" idea for folks that would like a
flea market business selling herbal mixtures, natural therapies
literature, etc. The system will dovetail nicely with people that have
small farms. For instance they might also sell organic fruits &
vegetables, live stock, pure breed pets, home crafts, pies, cookies,
etc. Not all of them will need shelters, but many will, and we would
like to recommend and sell some system... yours look really great. We
will offer a package deal that includes the option of a dome or tent of
some type. If you have a reseller or drop-ship program, we are
interested. I don't think we'd sell hundreds of them, but probably
between 10 and 30(?) per year. Maybe double that at very most.

Thanks for your time.

--gabe

Hi Gabe

Our strongest domes are the 30' and the 18'. They are drum tight and shed the wind well. Both of these sized domes have handled winds gusting to about 50. These winds were reported to me by customers and I was not there at the time to confirm. I was made to understand also that the winds gusted only for a short time. I do not know if they would handle your winds or not.

We do not offer tents for resale or drop shipping.

Bob Gillis

....

On Apr 6, 2007

Thanks for your reply... We'll probably recommend your tents in any
case, since they are absolutely the most ideal structure we have seen
for our application.

The wind scenarios I mentioned are the worst possible case, and I am
pretty sure that we'll be OK. I would really like to buy the 30' dome,
but with price and space considerations, I'll need to begin with the 18'
or 20'. Is the 20' tent significantly weaker? Or is is still pretty much
in the same ballpark?

Thanks for your time.

--gabe

Hi Gabe

The 18 is stronger than the 20. The reason for this is that the 18' uses the same diameter pole as the 20 and since it is supporting a dome with more surface area presented to the wind it does not resist the wind as well. It is hard to say how much weaker the 20 is to the 18 but if you are concerned about the wind consider the 18.

Bob Gillis.

On Apr 4, 2007

Thanks for the photo, Bob.

I’m leaning towards purchasing a StarBubble dome to use as the BURNcast recording pod at Burning Man this year.

But I’m confused. Your site really welcomes burner customers and shows a lot of great photos of your domes in use on the playa, And your reviews from satisfied customers are glowing!

But then this link ( http://shelter-systems.com/warning.html ) has this disclaimer: Shelter Systems' Domes are stronger for their weight and cost than any other structure. Still they are light weight portable structures and as such are not designed to hold unusually strong wind, year round wind or much snow.

Can you please advise me on this? I’ve cc’d my co-producer on this e-mail to help us determine the best dome for our purpose.

Cheers!

DaBomb

It is true that we have a great many happy Burners using our domes at Burning Man. It is also true that a tent even a very strong tent can get blown down in unusually strong wind.

Winds on the playa can be very strong. For the most part ether we have been lucky in the many years we have been at Burning Man or the "bad" winds have yet to come just at the time that Burning Man is happing. In any event, we want perspective customers to realize that the domes we make are strong and shed the wind well and have worked on the playa in the past but they are not invincible and could be blown down in a very strong wind.

I am curious why you are considering a StarBubble. If you have chosen the StarBubble because it is made with the White and Black covering thinking it will keep you cool you should know that it will not have that effect. The standard domes with one or more sunshades keep the interior cooler then our white and black covered Stardomes The black tends to re-radiate heat into the dome during the day. The standard domes also do better in the wind then the bubble domes. The reason for this is that the BubbleDomes stick up more in the wind and have a smaller base.

Bob Gillis

....

On Apr 4, 2007

Actually Bob, my first choice is the 10’ BubbleDome . I just like the profile and footprint and in my imagination. I also like that folks can stand up completely while inside and are not required to bend down when entering door.

I picture the 10' BubbleDome or the 10' StarBubble as the perfect recording booth for my podcasts. At Burning Man related events I will be setting up the dome at street fairs, warehouses, parking lots, parks, lawns and conferences halls. But I have to keep in mind, the weather conditions on the playa as well.

I’m looking for a small/medium size place for folks to come in for a brief visit to record for the show and then leave. If it’s any bigger than that, I’m afraid they’ll want to settle and party. And I wish to discourage that.

Then, the second reason for the StarBubble instead of the Bubble Dome is because, you’re right, I thought the covering would be better for the reasons you specified. I see that I am mistaken.

On my website (http://www.burncast.net) , I have the 20’ Bubble Dome on my “Wish List” and the image is hyperlinked directly to your website, so in a way I am endorsing your product without having really used it yet. Though I really only want the 10’ BubbleDome, I’ve come to realize if you are asking your listeners to donate to your cause that you need to set your sights a little higher to give us something to shoot for.

If I understand you correctly, you would recommend a standard dome for the sound studio on the playa?

DaBomb

The BD 10 is one of my favorites also. I was thinking you were interested in on of the bigger BDs. Of all the Bubble Domes the 10 is the strongest. We have sold these for BM. The reasoning is that it has many poles and thus is well supported. Also it has a small wind profile so it should function better in a stiff wind. If you do get one I would get one with a sunshade rather than the black and white covering. Also ask for a "lower back door" for cross ventilation (this is an extra $30 but you can also do it yourself if you let me know I will tell you how) (Make a note in your order that production contact me about this if you want us to do it for you).

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Apr 2, 2007

great photos...

we'll order a 31 this summer..,.

what's the latest in living off the grid?

have you discovered any great tech that i should know about.

water, waste, power, etc. ????

thanks,

dan

Dan

You are probably on top of this but I will gladly tell how I would do it if you want, but it's a bit long winded:

Solar is for sure. Get an array with controller ( http://www.gaiam.com/realgoods/ ) and 4 or more 6 volt gulf cart batteries that you wire up to make a 12 volt system (Local) and a 12 volt refrigerator (Sun Frost and West Marine offer them) You may want an inverter to get 120 volts AC for some of your electronics ( http://www.gaiam.com/realgoods/)

A wood or gas stove if you plan to use your dome in the winter.

I pulled this out of our Q & A section ( http://www.shelter-systems.com/qanda.html ) of our web site ( http://www.shelter-systems.com/email.html ) and you may well find more in there.

"General: Plumbing"

Have you had any experience or ideas about plumbing?

Plumbing is a long story. The simplest method, of course, is not to have any. You get more complicated from there...

Plumbing deals with two matters: water and sewage. Water is used for drinking, washing dishes and clothes, and bathing.

GETTING THE WATER:
1) Carry water in jugs to your dome.

6) Drill a well.
Note: I have used all these methods, except for drilling a well.

You may want to purchase a SolarDome 8' to cover your outhouse.

On Mar 27, 2007

Hi Bob,

I coming to Burning Man from London this year (hurrah), and would like some advice about your yurt domes please.

We're coming with a campervan and are considering buying an 11' yurt dome with a long 20 x 20' black woven sunshade. We want to create a space similar to the photo that you have of a van + yurt by a testimonial from someone called Kim Lane (who by her comments is also from the UK).

.....The smallest dome I recommend for BM is our 14' YD at $620. The reasons for this are that it is stronger and better supported than the 11 and that it has 4 doors so you can get air flow when it is hot and that it has a bigger volume of air (makes for a cooler dome) and that the height is higher: 7' (this also makes for a cooler dome. For all of these reasons the 18' is even a better choice.

First, is the floor included in the price of $350?

....None of our domes come with floors. You can use a tarp for your floor and save or we offer floors for sale see accessories: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html

Second, is the 20x20' sunshade ($100) the one you would advise? Would we need the sticky back velcro with this?

....The bigger the sunshade the better. They come with clips. Bring some cord or use the cord we provide with the dome to pull it out and tie it. One nice way is to tie over your dome and then to a car with a rack spaced a short distance from your dome. This then provides a shaded porch area which is a nice place to hang out in the day. Sticky back velcro is not needed for the shade but is useful to secure the sides of doors from wind.

Third, how do you recommend we fasten/attach the sunshade to the yurt/ground and what would be the cost of items to do this (if you provide them)?

....We include with the dome some spare stakes and cord. You may want to bring some thin rope and more stakes. Also see above.

It's the first time we've been to BM and so we're new to the challenges of the desert. I've read your website, and the advice about securing the yurts for strong winds etc. We want to have everything necessary to be safe, self-sufficient and secure, but need to keep costs down as much as possible what with travelling from so far! Is there anything else we would need? You suggest a Life Support Kit - is this something you provide, and if so, at what cost?

.....At this point we do not offer the kit but suggest you put your own together: http://www.shelter-systems.com/burningman-kits.html

Fifth, where are you based? Can we come and pick the order up?

We are set up to ship and try to avoid pickups.

Finally! would you have any recommendations of places in San Fran or en route to BM where we can cheaply kit out our yurt with rugs, throws, cushions etc?

I would try Good Will and thrift stores.

....Good luck, have fun, be safe.

We're keen to finalise these details within the next day or two, so if you could get back to me asap that would be great. I'm looking forward to hearing from you, and really excited about the possibility of hanging out in a yurt dome in the desert!

Kind regards,

Janna

Date: March 12, 2007

I have been looking at your website and was wondering if you could help me, I am in my third year of university studying design for performance. This involves set and costume design for theatre and film.

I am currently working on a new piece of writing and i plan to design a huge dome for the performance to take part in. An audience of fifty will be sat in the middle and the performance will take place around them. There will need to be four entrance and exits for the actors to come on and off stage and i plan to have three projectors outside to back project onto the dome so the audience feels enclosed in the surroundings. I have looked at different ways of creating this dome, but i would prefer there be no supporting structure on the inside,so there is more space for the audience and performance space. This means it either needs to be supported from the outside or self supporting. I have looked at geodesic domes but I am worried the supports will cause too many shadows. This is a hypothetical project at the moment but myself and the director are in talks of getting funding for it so i would therefore like my designs to be as realistic as possible.

The dome is 12metres 80 in diameter and 5metres 40 at it's highest point.

thankyou for taking the time to read this, any help you could give me would be much appreciated,

Yours sincerely,

Rebecca

Hi Rebecca

The largest dome we have is 31' . It is 16' tall and has 4 doors. All strcture is to the outside. This may work for you. http://www.shelter-systems.com/large.html Also see Photos near the middle of this page: http://www.shelter-systems.com/photos-1/photos-1.html

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Hi Bob,

Thank you so much for taking the time to get back to me, your information has really helped my project. The structures are amazing! It's great that you sent the pictures of the performance taking place in the dome, gives a feel of the space to show the director. It also shows that lighting is able to be rigged as well.

Thanks again,

Rebecca

On Mar 17, 2007

Bob,
How many grip-clips do I need to hold up 6 mil polyethylene (3 pieces 10 x 25 ft) inside a 20' dome?
The geodesic dome is 3V 10' radius and about 19' diameter at ground level and about 8.5' high; it's
made of 120 struts each 3.5' to 4' half inch EMT. There are 15 joints at ground level and 31 higher up.
Each joint has a 5/16 bolt through the center. Based on what is typed here it looks like I need 46 plus
maybe a few extra.
This site may help illustrate--http://www.desertdomes.com/dome3calc.html
(note, the drawing is of a 5/8 dome, mine has one less row of triangles at the bottom).
See attached picture; the door will be the large triangle in front.
At this point I am using 3/4 inch rocks with wire wrapped around them to attach two pieces of plastic
or to make something to hook a bungee cord to. Not too elegant but I guess I got the theory right.
Eventually I want to insulate this greenhouse--two layers of poly with practice golf balls as spacers. (One
ball per triangle)
BTW, the frame will support 200 pounds (me) at any joint but not between joints. And, it's almost 30' from
ground level over the top to the other side.
Feel free to make any suggestions especially about the door (it seems sturdy with one strut removed).
Thanks,
Dan

Hi Dan

I would use one Heavy Duty Grip Clip at each joint. Get a few more to attach to a door flap. Make the flap bigger than the opening so that it overlaps it by about 6". attach clips on this flap and attach out side the dome covering so that your door will be tight and shingled.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Bob
My order arrived yesterday and I put some of the grip clips to use this morning.
I can definitely see that putting the film, tarp, or fabric on the inside of a frame is the way
to go-- nothing is chaffing against the hubs and it's easier compared to trying to fasten
two pieces together that are already installed and under some tension. So, I will be
putting the poly film on the inside sooner rather than later--I still plan to install two layers
but the second will go on the outside.
I appreciate all the ideas for how to use these things you have on your website.
Dan

On Mar 8, 2007

Please advise if Yurt 31 can be constructed to reflect sunlight in order to create darkroom? I am not interested in external reflective sheeting as this looks nasty, but best solution would be if dome may be be constructed with light absorbing dark fabric. How hot would yurt be if black, will heat retention be an issue in strong sunlight? What are your experiences in desert etc? Is it feasible to line white yurt in black light-absorption fabric? Have you successfully made up anything like this on a previous order?

Regards

Steve

We have a white and black covering see near the bottom of: http://www.shelter-systems.com/dome-coverings.html that we have used to block light in some of our domes built from it for some of our customers. The material used white out black in blocks nearly 100% of the light but can let a few pin holes of light through and some may leak in by doors shingling etc. depending on how you set it up. It has some issues however. It is not fire retarded and may not meet shelter requirements by law, it is heaver, stiffer and more bulky: which would make it harder to set up, transport, and more expensive to ship (my guess would be five to seven hundred); in addition it is more expensive and harder to work with making its sale price 65% more than the standard 31. It would be a non-returnable special order.

The dome will tend to heat up in direct sun even with the white reflecting side out and I would recommend some type of sunshade see: http://www.shelter-systems.com/accessories.html at least directly over head and light blocking but air opened doors and or vents to create some air exchange.

If you want to talk about any of this feel free to call 650 323 6202

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Mar 8, 2007,

Hello,

What are the standard features of the Solarium? How many windows come standard in the Solarium? Can the Solarium be a free standing temporary shelter or is it recommended to connect it to your home considering functionability? Any information you give will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Glenda Kelly

Hi Glenda

Solariums are solar capturing structures that are attached to buildings. They are useful for capturing heat for the building if windows or doors are open into the house when the solarium is warmer than the house. They can be used to rise sun loving plants. They can be a nice place to sit in the sun when the outside temperature may be too cold. Shelter Systems Solariums are made from half of our existing GroDomes but we could also make them of our white Shelter Covering, if the customer desires, but they would not capture enough light to grow plants nor would capture as much heat. The half dome is so constructed to create a skirt along the edge that is to be joined to the house. The fixtures to join this skirt to the house are not included since each house is different. For example: Wood lath can be used if attaching to wood. With brick bolts should be set in the brick to attach a lath over the dome's edge skirt. The 14', 18', and 20' Solariums have two doors. No windows are installed and if desired two windows can be added of clear vinyl are $35 each and do not open. The 30' has four doors. The 31' has two doors. All Solariums come with two upper vent systems. They are not designed to hold snow or extreme winds. Snow must be melted or brushed off as it accumulates.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

On Mar 1, 2007

Hi Bob,

I am loving your website. The yurts you are building are very intriguing. I feel the call of the wild and want to go live in the mountains in a twenty footer. The light and airy feel I am imagining seems to be a truly healthy way to live.

But I am wondering if I will be able to stay warm as you say on the web site. Also i am wondering if it will be loud in the yurt with tarp noise at every shift of the wind. I am thinking of the tarps I have set up and camped under in the past.

One more concern is the snow and wind disclaimer. I know that you likely have to put that in there for legal reasons but it does tend to make me think that it would be foolish to try to live in something that cannot handle snow and wind.

Do you have any slightly used 20 footers at this time?

Are you able to give me the email address of someone who is living year round in one of your structures in a colder climate?

Thanks and peace to you,
Jimmy

Hi Jimmy

If you are using it in cold weather you most likely would want to have a stove. People have lived comfortably in these in cold climates year round but they are tent like and as such do not hold much snow or extreme winds and could fail in these conditions and therefore you should have the means to get to alternative shelter if need be.

The domes are drum tight and do not tend flap in the wind.

They will not hold much snow. If you plan to use them were it snows you should knock off the snow as it develops or heat the inside to melt and slide the snow off.

I do have a prototype 20 that was developed to use stronger poles and our Heavy Duty Grip Clips that we put up last week. It is discounted 15% but shipping is $90 due to the heaver poles. Note that it takes two strong people to put it up. The poles are 1/25" instead of 1" which makes the dome stronger but it still has a limit in how much snow or wind it can handle.

We do not give out any customer info.

Sincerely,

Bob Gillis

Email Questions and Answers 2007